Greek Unicode duplicated vowels - Revision history

GabrielBodard: /* Recommendations */ deprecated in Unicode

2016-03-11T11:59:14Z

Recommendations: deprecated in Unicode

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:59, 11 March 2016
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	Tools and input methods should use the Greek and Coptic versions (GREEK [CAPITAL\|SMALL] LETTER [ALPHA\|EPSILON\|ETA\|IOTA\|OMICRON\|UPSILON\|OMEGA] WITH TONOS) for these character combinations. Fonts and search tools should continue to support both for the sake of legacy data.		Tools and input methods should use the Greek and Coptic versions (GREEK [CAPITAL\|SMALL] LETTER [ALPHA\|EPSILON\|ETA\|IOTA\|OMICRON\|UPSILON\|OMEGA] WITH TONOS) for these character combinations. Fonts and search tools should continue to support both for the sake of legacy data.

			The latest versions of Unicode (as of 2016) have now formally deprecated and removed the vowel+oxia combinations from the Greek extended range, leaving only the vowel+tonos from the basic Greek and Coptic range.

	[[category:FAQ]]		[[category:FAQ]]
	[[category:Unicode]]		[[category:Unicode]]

GabrielBodard: titles

2016-01-07T14:26:38Z

titles

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:26, 7 January 2016
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	==The ~~Problem~~==		=Duplicated vowel+oxia characters in Greek Unicode range=

			==The problem==

	When Greek spelling was reformed in the 1980s, every accent was dropped except the oxia (acute). But experiments in typography at that time (e.g., rendering the acute nearly erect, or in the shape of a triangle), combined with the orthographical reforms, gave the false impression that all previous accents had been discarded in favor of a new and different accent, the tonos. Hence double code points for the vowels with oxiai made their way into fonts and into pre-Unicode encodings that were eventually folded into Unicode (which had to deal with legacy code tables). This legacy is evident in Unicode, which designated two major blocks:		When Greek spelling was reformed in the 1980s, every accent was dropped except the oxia (acute). But experiments in typography at that time (e.g., rendering the acute nearly erect, or in the shape of a triangle), combined with the orthographical reforms, gave the false impression that all previous accents had been discarded in favor of a new and different accent, the tonos. Hence double code points for the vowels with oxiai made their way into fonts and into pre-Unicode encodings that were eventually folded into Unicode (which had to deal with legacy code tables). This legacy is evident in Unicode, which designated two major blocks:
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	The Unicode Consortium soon recognized that the duplicated vowels preserved a false distinction. They therefore established normalizing rules that dictated that the upper code point should always be converted to the lower. But it is common to run into the problem of acute vowels encoded in Greek Extended.		The Unicode Consortium soon recognized that the duplicated vowels preserved a false distinction. They therefore established normalizing rules that dictated that the upper code point should always be converted to the lower. But it is common to run into the problem of acute vowels encoded in Greek Extended.

	==~~The Characters~~==		==Affected characters==

	For some reason, perhaps because of an oversight, or perhaps because the editors thought that there was some essential difference between ''tonos'' and ''oxia'' (acute)--which there is not--sixteen characters in the Greek basic set were duplicated in Greek extended:		For some reason, perhaps because of an oversight, or perhaps because the editors thought that there was some essential difference between ''tonos'' and ''oxia'' (acute)--which there is not--sixteen characters in the Greek basic set were duplicated in Greek extended:

GabrielBodard: /* The Characters */ typo

2015-11-12T11:17:35Z

The Characters: typo

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:17, 12 November 2015
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	==The Characters==		==The Characters==

	For some reason, perhaps because of an oversight, or perhaps because the editors thought that there was some essential difference between ''tonos'' and ''oxia'' (acute), which there is not~~. Sixteen~~ characters in the Greek basic set were duplicated in Greek extended:		For some reason, perhaps because of an oversight, or perhaps because the editors thought that there was some essential difference between ''tonos'' and ''oxia'' (acute)--which there is not--sixteen characters in the Greek basic set were duplicated in Greek extended:

	{\| border="1"		{\| border="1"

JoelKalvesmaki: /* Recommendations */ Removed duplication from earlier sections, clarified the Unicode code points in question

2015-03-24T17:03:41Z

Recommendations: Removed duplication from earlier sections, clarified the Unicode code points in question

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:03, 24 March 2015
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	==Recommendations==		==Recommendations==

	There have been problems with this (certain fonts in certain browsers don't get it right, for example). It seems (see discussion from [http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pinax/greekkeys/technicalDetails.html GreekKeys Unicode]) that the higher codepoint, in Extended Greek, has been de facto deprecated, by virtue of Unicode normalization rules that turn the higher code point vowels into their lower code point equivalents. By preference all tools and input methods should use the ~~Basic~~ Greek ~~vowel+tonos~~ for these character combinations. Fonts and search tools should continue to support both for the sake of legacy data.		Tools and input methods should use the Greek and Coptic versions (GREEK [CAPITAL\|SMALL] LETTER [ALPHA\|EPSILON\|ETA\|IOTA\|OMICRON\|UPSILON\|OMEGA] WITH TONOS) for these character combinations. Fonts and search tools should continue to support both for the sake of legacy data.

	[[category:FAQ]]		[[category:FAQ]]
	[[category:Unicode]]		[[category:Unicode]]

JoelKalvesmaki: /* The Characters */ Updated font problem

2015-03-24T17:00:28Z

The Characters: Updated font problem

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:00, 24 March 2015
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	The Unicode database dictates a rule for normalization that converts the higher code point to its corresponding lower code point.		The Unicode database dictates a rule for normalization that converts the higher code point to its corresponding lower code point.

	Most [[Greek Fonts (Unicode)]] will display both versions identically. A notable exception is Adobe Garamond Premiere Pro, which ~~places~~ the ~~accent~~ in the ~~lower code point versions~~ at almost a vertical angle, and the ~~upper code point versions~~ at a slanted, ca. 45-degree angle. This can cause a problem with software that (correctly) normalizes the higher points to the lower ones, producing an inconsistent appearance of accentuation.		Most [[Greek Fonts (Unicode)]] will display both versions identically. A notable exception is Adobe Garamond Premiere Pro and Adobe Minion Pro, which observes the false distinction introduced in the 1980s by setting the oxia in the Greek and Coptic block at almost a vertical angle, and in the Greek Extended block at a slanted, ca. 45-degree angle. This can cause a problem with software that (correctly) normalizes the higher points to the lower ones, producing an inconsistent appearance in accentuation.

	==Recommendations==		==Recommendations==

JoelKalvesmaki: /* The Problem */ made case-insensitive

2015-03-24T16:57:55Z

The Problem: made case-insensitive

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:57, 24 March 2015
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	==The Problem==		==The Problem==

	When Greek spelling was reformed in the 1980s, every accent was dropped except the oxia (acute). But experiments in typography at that time (e.g., rendering the acute nearly erect, or in the shape of a triangle), combined with the orthographical reforms, gave the false impression that all previous accents had been discarded in favor of a new and different accent, the tonos. Hence double code points for the ~~acute lowercase~~ vowels made their way into fonts and into pre-Unicode encodings that were eventually folded into Unicode (which had to deal with legacy code tables). This legacy is evident in Unicode, which designated two major blocks:		When Greek spelling was reformed in the 1980s, every accent was dropped except the oxia (acute). But experiments in typography at that time (e.g., rendering the acute nearly erect, or in the shape of a triangle), combined with the orthographical reforms, gave the false impression that all previous accents had been discarded in favor of a new and different accent, the tonos. Hence double code points for the vowels with oxiai made their way into fonts and into pre-Unicode encodings that were eventually folded into Unicode (which had to deal with legacy code tables). This legacy is evident in Unicode, which designated two major blocks:
	* Greek and Coptic ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0370.pdf 0370-03FF]), which encoded the characters required for modern Greek: the 24-letter alphabet, a couple of numerical symbols, and vowels with ''tonos'' and/or ''diaeresis'' in addition to Coptic and a few other symbols. (Coptic was later moved to its own block, but the original name Greek and Coptic was retained for backward compatibility)		* Greek and Coptic ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0370.pdf 0370-03FF]), which encoded the characters required for modern Greek: the 24-letter alphabet, a couple of numerical symbols, and vowels with ''tonos'' and/or ''diaeresis'' in addition to Coptic and a few other symbols. (Coptic was later moved to its own block, but the original name Greek and Coptic was retained for backward compatibility)
	* Greek Extended ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F00.pdf 1F00-1FFF]), which handled polytonic Greek (for both classical and ''katherevousa'' Greek), which handled precomposed vowels with accents, breathing marks, subscript iotas, etc.		* Greek Extended ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F00.pdf 1F00-1FFF]), which handled polytonic Greek (for both classical and ''katherevousa'' Greek), which handled precomposed vowels with accents, breathing marks, subscript iotas, etc.

	The Unicode Consortium soon recognized that the duplicated vowels preserved a false distinction. They therefore established normalizing rules that dictated that the upper code point should always be converted to the lower. But it is common to run into the problem of ~~lowercase~~ acute vowels encoded in Greek Extended.		The Unicode Consortium soon recognized that the duplicated vowels preserved a false distinction. They therefore established normalizing rules that dictated that the upper code point should always be converted to the lower. But it is common to run into the problem of acute vowels encoded in Greek Extended.

	==The Characters==		==The Characters==

JoelKalvesmaki: /* The Problem */ Provided historical background

2015-03-24T16:56:41Z

The Problem: Provided historical background

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:56, 24 March 2015
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	==The Problem==		==The Problem==

	~~The~~ Greek ~~basic~~ Unicode ~~range~~ ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0370.pdf 0370-03FF]) ~~originally~~ encoded the characters required for modern Greek: the 24-letter alphabet, a couple of numerical symbols, and vowels with ''tonos'' and/or ''diaeresis'' (in addition to Coptic and a few other symbols). ~~When~~ the Greek ~~extended range~~ ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F00.pdf 1F00-1FFF]) ~~was added to handle Polytonic~~ Greek (for both ~~Classical~~ and ''katherevousa'' Greek), ~~this basically involved the addition of accented~~ vowels, ~~plus~~ breathing marks, subscript iotas, etc.		When Greek spelling was reformed in the 1980s, every accent was dropped except the oxia (acute). But experiments in typography at that time (e.g., rendering the acute nearly erect, or in the shape of a triangle), combined with the orthographical reforms, gave the false impression that all previous accents had been discarded in favor of a new and different accent, the tonos. Hence double code points for the acute lowercase vowels made their way into fonts and into pre-Unicode encodings that were eventually folded into Unicode (which had to deal with legacy code tables). This legacy is evident in Unicode, which designated two major blocks:
			* Greek and Coptic ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0370.pdf 0370-03FF]), which encoded the characters required for modern Greek: the 24-letter alphabet, a couple of numerical symbols, and vowels with ''tonos'' and/or ''diaeresis'' in addition to Coptic and a few other symbols. (Coptic was later moved to its own block, but the original name Greek and Coptic was retained for backward compatibility)
			* Greek Extended ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F00.pdf 1F00-1FFF]), which handled polytonic Greek (for both classical and ''katherevousa'' Greek), which handled precomposed vowels with accents, breathing marks, subscript iotas, etc.

			The Unicode Consortium soon recognized that the duplicated vowels preserved a false distinction. They therefore established normalizing rules that dictated that the upper code point should always be converted to the lower. But it is common to run into the problem of lowercase acute vowels encoded in Greek Extended.

	==The Characters==		==The Characters==

JoelKalvesmaki: /* The Characters */ Clarified normalization rules, font exceptions

2015-02-03T17:04:15Z

The Characters: Clarified normalization rules, font exceptions

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:04, 3 February 2015
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	==The Characters==		==The Characters==

	For some reason, perhaps because of an oversight, or perhaps because the editors ~~of this revision were~~ thought that there was some essential difference between ''tonos'' and ''oxia'' (which there is not~~), 16~~ characters in the Greek basic set were duplicated in Greek extended:		For some reason, perhaps because of an oversight, or perhaps because the editors thought that there was some essential difference between ''tonos'' and ''oxia'' (acute), which there is not. Sixteen characters in the Greek basic set were duplicated in Greek extended:

	{\| border="1"		{\| border="1"
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	\|}		\|}

	There ~~should be~~ no difference between, for example, ά and ά (both alpha-oxia), so in most cases you don't need to worry about this. Your [[Greek Keyboards (Unicode)]] will make a decision and input one or the other~~; your [[Greek Fonts (Unicode)]] will display both identically; a~~ search engine should be able to find both from either input (just as they should be able to strip diacritics altogether from a search term, if desired).		There is no semantic difference between, for example, ά and ά (both alpha-oxia), so in most cases you don't need to worry about this. Your [[Greek Keyboards (Unicode)]] will make a decision and input one or the other. A search engine should be able to find both from either input (just as they should be able to strip diacritics altogether from a search term, if desired).

			The Unicode database dictates a rule for normalization that converts the higher code point to its corresponding lower code point.

			Most [[Greek Fonts (Unicode)]] will display both versions identically. A notable exception is Adobe Garamond Premiere Pro, which places the accent in the lower code point versions at almost a vertical angle, and the upper code point versions at a slanted, ca. 45-degree angle. This can cause a problem with software that (correctly) normalizes the higher points to the lower ones, producing an inconsistent appearance of accentuation.

	==Recommendations==		==Recommendations==

JoelKalvesmaki: /* Recommendations */ clarified deprecation versus normalization

2014-02-20T16:01:43Z

Recommendations: clarified deprecation versus normalization

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:01, 20 February 2014
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	==Recommendations==		==Recommendations==

	There have been problems with this (certain fonts in certain browsers don't get it right, for example). It seems (see discussion from [http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pinax/greekkeys/technicalDetails.html GreekKeys Unicode]) that the higher codepoint, in Extended Greek, has been deprecated. By preference all tools and input methods should use the Basic Greek vowel+tonos for these character combinations. Fonts and search tools should continue to support both for the sake of legacy data.		There have been problems with this (certain fonts in certain browsers don't get it right, for example). It seems (see discussion from [http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pinax/greekkeys/technicalDetails.html GreekKeys Unicode]) that the higher codepoint, in Extended Greek, has been de facto deprecated, by virtue of Unicode normalization rules that turn the higher code point vowels into their lower code point equivalents. By preference all tools and input methods should use the Basic Greek vowel+tonos for these character combinations. Fonts and search tools should continue to support both for the sake of legacy data.

	[[category:FAQ]]		[[category:FAQ]]
	[[category:Unicode]]		[[category:Unicode]]

GabrielBodard: /* The Problem */ typos

2012-08-10T11:56:34Z

The Problem: typos

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:56, 10 August 2012
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	==The Problem==		==The Problem==

	The Greek basic Unicode range ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0370.pdf 0370-03FF]) originally ~~enciding~~ the characters required for modern Greek: the 24-letter alphabet, a couple of numerical symbols, and vowels with ''tonos'' and/or ''diaeresis'' (in addition to Coptic and a few other symbols). When the Greek extended range ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F00.pdf 1F00-1FFF]) was added to handle Polytonic Greek (for both Classical and ''katherevousa'' Greek), this basically involved the addition of accented vowels, plus breathing marks, subscript iotas, etc.		The Greek basic Unicode range ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0370.pdf 0370-03FF]) originally encoded the characters required for modern Greek: the 24-letter alphabet, a couple of numerical symbols, and vowels with ''tonos'' and/or ''diaeresis'' (in addition to Coptic and a few other symbols). When the Greek extended range ([http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F00.pdf 1F00-1FFF]) was added to handle Polytonic Greek (for both Classical and ''katherevousa'' Greek), this basically involved the addition of accented vowels, plus breathing marks, subscript iotas, etc.

	==The Characters==		==The Characters==